Re: Birth Stories

Podcast Transcript:

Sophia

Hello and welcome to Mother Crow Connection. A new installment to the Mother Crow newsletter and podcast featuring conversations with writers, artists, healers, thinkers and mothers, as well as poems and stories from Mother Crow listeners. In reflection of the Birth Stories issue of Mother Crow, this episode focuses on the topics of birth, rebirth, and the importance of remembering ourselves.

Sophia

First, I interview author and Intuitive Life Coach Angela DeSalvo about her new book, Soul Warrior, and her life changing practice, Transformational Soul Work. Next, my husband and I reflect on “A Birth Story” as we explore the perspective of the father as a witness to birth. trauma, and a mother’s transformation. And finally, I listen to the birth stories of Jess Bushnell, a mother of two, who birthed both of her babies from home.

Sophia

I am your host, Sophia Elizabeth. Let’s connect and Mother Crow!

Sophia

Hi, Angela. 

Angela

Hi Sophia. 

Sophia

Angela is a life and grief coach, a spiritual medium, and the creator of a practice called Transformational Soul Work. She recently gave birth to a dream come true, as she is now the author of her new book, Soul Warrior How to Liberate Yourself from Survival Mode and Thrive Through Any Challenge. I asked you to join me for this discussion because transformation is the name of the game.

Sophia

And when I first met you over a decade ago, you helped me unearth an understanding that there was purpose behind my distinct voice, that I was born to be a messenger. And, after working with you more recently as your editor, I was inspired by your work, yet again, to step back into myself. Hence, the creation of Mother Crow.

Sophia

There is something in a name, in a title, in answering the call to be oneself and defining it. And according to your teachinggs, A transformative rebirth is possible when we do the work to remember ourselves. That’s where your book begins with chapter one. Remember the calling. So, Angela, what is your calling?

Angela

My calling is to help people remember themselves.

Sophia

Yeah. Which you’ve done for me twice now. I can put a quantity on that for me.

Angela

Wow. And I just reflect people back to themselves, because I think that’s all what we all need, is to be seen and heard. And most of us, in our moment of when we needed it most, weren’t seen or heard. And I think it keeps us forever spinning in a cycle of trying to find out who will hear us and who will see us.

Angela

And we go through lots of different gyrations throughout our life, not even realizing it that that’s ultimately what we’re trying to do. And so that’s what I discovered in writing my book and why I wrote my book. And the more people I sit with, the more I’m convinced that that’s what I’m here to do, is to help people remember who they are.

Sophia

And you remember in your own calling to do this work stemmed from your own place of not remembering, like before there’s transformation, there’s the need to be transformed. There’s the need for transformation. That before you were called to this work, there was the need to be called. There was Angela not living this work. There was. How. How many years of that?

Sophia

How many years of living outside of your soul’s purpose?

Angela

Well, but also knowing myself, I had been living this work, although it wasn’t directed in any specific place... So my thought process and my curiosity with things would get expressed with my own family, my husband and kids. And I don’t think they knew how to respond to me. So I would get more laughs or, oh, that’s just mom.

Angela

Or, Because what I realize and it’s even in my book, as my oldest daughter said, I’m too raw and too real, and people just can’t handle that. That’s just kind of my natural way of being. And the intensity, you know, at 15, my neighbor looked at me and said, You’re so intense. So, it’s been a part of me my entire life.

Angela

I just finally found an avenue that gave me a platform to put it into a structure to be able to deliver it to people in a way that now makes sense.

Sophia

Yeah. Which comes down to remembering who you are. And you right here in the chapter, Discover True Self. You say “The possibilities and expansion of one’s soul, and therefore, human expression are wholly attainable when an honest connection occurs with oneself and with another. This connection can enable the soul to witness truth. I realized this was not just a fantasy.

Sophia

I was playing out in my own internal world, but a reality that others could recognize, want access to, and experience for themselves. I was coming alive in the remembrance of who I am, and I was rising into my soul’s purpose to help others do the same.”

Sophia

Which is extremely powerful, Angela, that you’ve gone on this journey of, in a lot of ways, before and after that, so many people can themselves go, there’s this before, this autopilot before, this living in this familiar story before. And then there’s connection. Being witnessed. Witnessing yourself. Remembering yourself. And all of a sudden, there’s this After, there’s taking steps... reborn unto oneself, unto your true self, which is incredible and universal.

Angela

Universal. Yeah. So, that’s what I get when people read my book. The response I’ve been getting back is, one woman says, You get me! You know, and actually the people that have recently come to work with me, have read my book, and they said, I can totally relate to your story. It’s my story. You know, obviously different experiences, different life, different person, but the human condition.

Angela

And that’s what people are relating to in a way that it’s been written that they can understand and see themselves in, in it because they’ve been in it themselves.

Sophia

And why do you think that is? Is there is there some element to transformation that is necessary for the human to go through? Does the human condition require us to go through some form of transformation?

Angela

I think so. I read somewhere, there is a time and it usually happens when we’re 40 years old. I was 50. People now are in their thirties, it seems. I think a lot of people are waking up. I think the universe is requiring that people wake up sooner because we need to take care of planet Earth.

Sophia

I would call mine thirty.

Angela

Yeah. So yes, I think it’s part of the human condition that we go through this. You know, you’re talking the butterfly, right? The cocoon and the metaphorphosis, the butterfly. And I think it’s a natural part of our souls yearning. It’s just another stage in life. You know, we have our our young stage, our childhood, where we’re, you know, 0 to 7 impressionable.

Angela

So everything that comes in at us, we’re just like sponges soaking it up as though it is the truth. And in that time frame, it is the truth, right? And a lot of those things that happen help us to survive regardless of the situation that we’re enduring. Maybe what it could look like for anybody is as people. Right.

Angela

The population, I mean, some of us, it can be very tragic and some of us it can be a cakewalk. But we’re still learning survival coping mechanisms in that early part of life. And then we go out to life and we start living it in our teens and twenties. And like I said, I think many people are waking up more, now, 

Angela

And then I think you start to realize that what worked before for survival isn’t quite working now. Right? It doesn’t. We’re not the same. We’re in these grown bodies, and so many of us take our childhood mentality and never update it because that’s not what we’re taught to do... it’s about being present. Right? And so, research has shown 95% of the time, we’re not we’re not present.

Angela

We’re in our subconscious, which means we’re acting on familiar behavior.

Sophia

Thoe stories, those stories of our past, those stories of our childhood, stories of surviving.

Angela

We just keep pulling up what we know, because what we don’t know is terrifying.

Sophia

Mm hmm. But that’s where you. You speak of. Of courage. You know, you have to, you have to face those fears of becoming oneself.

Angela

And if we look, we face every day microscopic unknowns. We just don’t recognize them because we, we come from a place of feeling like we’re in control. So we navigate our life in a way that we we know, you know, what’s coming next. I get out of bed. I, you know, whatever your routine is, what you do first, you do everything the same to feel like there’s a sense of control.

Angela

Therefore you know what’s going to happen. But really, once we walk out our front door, we have no idea what’s going to happen. So we’re always facing an unknown. We just don’t look at it that way. So when we come to an unknown that could be reflective of something in ourselves that got suppressed. Right? That’s the shadow that we don’t want to look at because we were told at one point in time, either outright explicit or implicitly, we believe that something was not right with us.

Sophia

That core wound, that core wounding.

Angela

So that becomes a fearful because, oh, my God, what if I’ve avoided it all this time? What happens now if I face it? What? How do I handle that? And that’s where you can’t do it alone.

Sophia

Yeah. The same way that children can’t do it alone. Children are naturally codependent creatures. They require the caretaking of another. And, it’s almost the same, if you are wounded as a child and you don’t face that wounding as an adult, then in a lot of ways, you’re still that child. You’re just in an adult body. And that’s where this entire idea behind this episode of Rebirth comes from is that most people, most adults, do require some form of transformation to really, fully grow up.

Sophia

They might have been raised and they might have been raised by very loving, good parents, just as you were. That doesn’t mean that a core group doesn’t occur. That doesn’t mean that you aren’t traumatized in some shape or form through just simply being a human, walking through life. It’s traumatizing being human. It’s traumatizing upon birth. The moment you’re born, you’re, you know, you’re thrashed about.

Sophia

Your heart rate is up and down and who knows? We don’t know what the baby goes through. We can only imagine that it’s traumatic. And, here we all...

Angela

And we scream.

Sophia

uh-huh, We scream. And the mother roars, and the baby screams and the oxytocin flows. And for whatever reason, that trauma is just then bookmarked as the birthday. And here we go. All right. Welcome to the world. You’re born and then you’ve got a lot of lost souls running around as adults who really do require to face themselves, to face that childhood trauma, to face their behavior as adults because of that trauma, that conditioned behavior, and then go, okay, I need to, I need to reparent.

Sophia

Everyone is walking around with a need to be... (Angela: Be seen, Be Heard!) be seen! You say in your book, that the statement, “This is just who I am” is a limiting statement. And you can kind of see this juxtaposition between this, the limits of, this is just who I am. That’s just my personality. This is just where I came from. This is just how I [was] raised versus that thrive through anything, that potential, the liberation of,

Sophia

Well, no, you’re not just your personality. You can accept that that’s a part of you. But it’s not all of you. And what can you step into? And when I first met you, I was grieving. I was able to step into my voice so much because you told me in so many ways that my voice had meaning. And then, you know, a decade goes by of life and life and more life happening.

Sophia

So, you start forgetting those things that you remembered again. And then in working with you, with your book, it was like, again, that reminder, the remember, the remember who you are, remember your voice. Remember it has purpose, meaning...

Angela

It’s liberating... it’s liberating... 

Sophia

To become. This, this, this concept of rebirth is just as powerful as just birth, you know? And it is, it’s considered one of the most amazing things. It’s the human miracle, is birth, you know? But there’s also another side to that. There’s also the miracle of rebirth. There’s, you are born on the day of your birthday.

Sophia

But if you can get to the point where you said, you know, whatever decade it may be as an adult to be reborn, then I mean, that is also a day to celebrate, to be welcomed to this world.. anew.

Angela

Well, I think, unlike the first birth into the world, this second rebirth is a, it’s not a one moment.

Sophia

I mean it’s your book, it’s a journey, it’s a lifetime. And then another lifetime on top of it to get through how you got to that point. You know, it really is. It’s big. The rebirth is big. (Angela: yea, many layers) It’s layered! Half of your book is a memoir, tells your story where Transformational Soul Work began. And so many people, I mean, everybody has a memoir in them.

Sophia

Everyone could remember themselves. And you’ve written your memoir, and then written the piece to it that is your purpose, which is bringing this method to people to simply do what they were meant to do.

Angela

I went to my 40th high school reunion. The first person I spoke to was a... was a guy who I went to school with and he says, “I got your book and it’s really helping me.” And I said, Well, I said, “Why? Why?” He says, “Just because I could relate to feeling the certain ways that you spoke about, you know, being really quiet and not being seen.

Angela

And I just read your book and I feel...” well, you feel seen, you know, he just felt comforted. And then somebody else throughout the night, i dont know, we were talking and something came up that I wrote a book and he said, “Well, what is it? What’s the book?” I said, “Well it’s a part memoir? Part teaching. “Memoir?!” He says, “Well, what have you done in life that deserved to write a memoir?”

Angela

I thought, Mm hmm. I said, “Well, it’s just about my story and how I learned about, you know, my wounds and my condition behavior.” And he stopped it, and he just stepped back and goes, wow, that sounds really cool. Good for.

Angela

You know but it got his attention like I had to be some grand specimen to have written or a famous person to have written a memoir. 

00;15;46;22 - 00;15;49;01

Sophia

And you didn’t go on the defensive. You said, “well, no, I just...

Angela

Yeah. It was interesting to hear that...

Angela

Oh, well, I guess that’s the human aspect of it, right? We’re just, we’re all, as I see it, spiritual beings having a human experience, going outside of ourselves, being told by outside forces, media, news, whatever, of telling us what we should do, what we should wear, how we should think, what we should eat, you know, where we should go to school dah dah dah dah

Sophia

All the social constructions...

Angela

Right. So, we’re told from the outside how to be this human and that. And I think that is part of that transformation when our soul that’s inhabiting our body starts to wake up and say, you know, what did you come here for?

Sophia

Yeah, well, that’s the fight. That’s where the warrior comes in. And the soul is fighting to to exist authentically, genuinely, presently, truly.

Angela

I think it’s our job to learn how to integrate the two. That’s what I really believe is that how do you be a human and how do you let your soul express? And that’s why, you know, I say in different places that to be in your full expression of yourself, you know, your authentic expression of your beingness and my beingness.

Angela

And that is what’s liberating. And that is what everybody should be able to contact. Now, personally, I know for me, that’s hard to maintain that authentic expression in the sense of... I need more opportunities for me to be fully expressed in the way that lights me up, which is something like this, which is... writing my book, which is doing my calling, which is speaking.

Angela

It’s not just, you know, sitting one on one with people, helping them to remember them. If I were in a more consistent space to be more expressive, then I certainly know that I wouldn’t fall into, again, the human condition of maybe beating myself up internally or telling me that the you’re not good enoughs, or the litany of things that we can pounce on ourselves for.

Angela

I think when we started to get agitated, you know, defensive, just feeling off, we’re, because we’re not on, we’re not on our game. Right? And then we start to blame our circumstances, right? We go outside of ourselves, which is what we’re taught in our culture. Yeah. And for me, that’s a reminder. Oh, I got to go back in.

Angela

I got to go back in. And, you know, I was at a concert last night and there was even a story before a song that was being told, that, in the song was about going in. And, you know, the musician said that how when you stop and you’re quiet enough and you go in, there’s a lot of magical mysticism in all of us to be contacted, waiting there, you know, just swirling to like grab a hold of and and I mean, that’s, that’s the life force energy that is constantly there.

Angela

And it’s kind of like, I have this vision of a merry go round, but a fast merry go round and it’s like, Oh, let’s go in and grab this part, you know, and let’s ride this one for a while. And it’s like it’s always there. And what are you going to do to grab a hold?

Sophia

You grasp on to it. Well, it’s interesting how, how hard it can be to just live your truth, that it’s actually something you have to practice daily or you fall very quickly into the routine, because that routine stems from core woound, from conditioned behaviors, from what makes you feel comfortable because what makes you feel comfortable is what enabled you to survive.

Sophia

And it’s entering the unknown, going into what’s a little bit uncomfortable, very uncomfortable, becoming vulnerable in that discomfort. But until you just kind of burst open from your chest, you know, your heart place just blows wide open and you can’t go back once it happens. Once it happens. I mean, it’s like being born. You don’t shove the baby back in, you’re born, you are here.

Sophia

And yeah, you might trickle back to those, those old behaviors of the past because they’re habitual and you know them. But it doesn’t mean that you’re not aware of them. That’s the, that’s the key.

Angela

Right. You have to remember what you know. And just like you said, you know, ten years ago, you learned something. I don’t know what it was. I said, whatever. But what you got from me about you was that you had a voice. And then life happened over ten years, and then you remembered again.

Angela

You know, not that you went back to square one.

Sophia

No, not at all.

Angela

But you rememb... right? we always feel like, oh, God, I’m back where I... nothing happened.

Sophia

No it feels like ten years forward. 

Angela

Yeah. And, and here’s a new spot, is what I’m hearing. Is that, like, here’s another layer. 

Sophia

Yeah. One... A layer that after working with you, with your book, a layer of me that’s realized that I want to be heard, that I’m...I’m ready to express myself fully. Like what you were saying, that to do full expression. That is full expression! And, to do that, in a way, that is, I think the phrase is, no holds bar, you know, where it’s just... “Angela: yeah, it’s unapologetically) ...full force ahead, unapologetically

Sophia

Yeah! And it’s always going to be a journey because the first thing that popped in my head just then was, unapologetically, I wish! you know, that is a goal of mine is to do it unapologetically because that’s part of my habits. Part of my core wound, is “I’m sorry, I’m not doing it right. I’m sorry. I’m sorry.” And I become sorry for myself, you know, (Angela: existence) yeah, for my existence, as opposed to standing my feet down and saying, I am here, I am Mother Crow, and I am not sorry.

Sophia

And it’s, it’s, it’s a practice. And I’m in the middle of practicing it as we speak.

Angela

Well, It’s a joy to watch. And it’s... you know, that’s my hope for everybody. Right? And if I can be a part of helping that, then wow, then...

Sophia

Well, that’s your work, You, you in a lot of ways, you’re a soul doula.

Sophia

You know... you help guide people’s souls back to them... it’s cool. You birth people souls. I think that people birth their own souls, but you certainly witness the same way a doula does, you witness. And it’s painful, you know, it’s not easy, it’s hard. But so beyond worth it.

Angela

Oh, yeah. And if people just knew how much, how worth it, it was rather than knowing that that’s just not for them. I mean we all have a choice and for some people it’s just not... For some people.

Sophia

Well people got a taste it. They got to go at their own pace.

Angela

Yeah.

Sophia

Things have to happen. I mean... we’ve talked about before where someone can pick up your book one day and they say, “Oh, that’s nice. I got something from it.” And a year later, they pick it up and it’s like, whoa!

Angela

Like, I keep getting this image even of you in writing. And I just, I can still, I don’t know what day it was or where we were in the process, but I just remember it as I was trying to express to you, okay, this is what I’m trying to say. This is what I’m writing, you know? And you have a fantastic way of taking my words and just maybe changing a few, even the same words, but in different places.

Angela

But anyhow...I was trying to express to you what I was saying, and it’s like you had a moment of realizing what I do, and you were just like you sat back and you’re like, you know, you stopped in that moment, becoming editor, you know, technical. Let’s look at this. You just kind of went, woh, wow, this is your work.

Sophia

And even going backwards ten years, putting more context to what you even did to me back then, you know, in sitting down and speaking with me and meditating with me and meditating on my purpose, I know something happened to me back then because someone- you- told me that my voice has meaning, but that was just like this little seed.

Sophia

And then when we were working together, it was like. Ohhhhhhh...

Angela

Like this lightbulb went off

(Laughter) 

Sophia

My voice has meaning!

Angela

That’s what that means... yea, so I guess not everything, right? We, we cannot, we can’t hear everything, right? Like the seed is planted. But yeah, it...

Sophia

It made me just think to be kind to ourselves, you know? And if that’s the case, then we need to be a little bit more patient than, “I’m not who I want to be right now.”

Angela

Oh, Gosh. 

Sophia

You know...cause I was, I’ve been pissed off at myself for the last ten years for not being reborn in Mother Crow yet. And I had no idea Mother Crow existed. I didn’t kinda just sit in this moment of becoming, and a lot of people don’t, they’re not present. They’re like, “shit, I did that in the past, gosh darn it.

Sophia

And I want to be that in the future.” But they’re never just (Angela: present)in it enough to realize that it’s actually happening...it’s happening.

Angela

It is happening. Well again, it’s the, it’s the society that we live in. We’re not nurtured this way. We’re not, we’re told to go out and succeed. And, you know, this is the path to freedom. This is the staircase to success. And this is the way that you do it, and anything, if you veer away from that, well, then you’re just a lost soul. 

Angela

Yeah.

Sophia

It’s ironic...because it’s like you veer away and it’s like, hello, soul (Angela: Oh, right?)

Sophia

Nice to finally meet you!

Angela

Right... yeah. I’m just... it’s delightful to know that the intention I had with this book was that I wanted it to be relatable, not just here, read my story, but here, read my story and see if you can find yourself in it. And that’s what’s happening. That’s what’s happening because we are all part of the human condition.

Angela

And, like I say in the book, we all come in the same way and you know, we’re going to leave, that’s going to look different for all this, but we’re gonna exit this body in some fashion, in between is a myriad of different experiences for each one of us. But there’s a thread. There’s a thread that holds us all... our humanity, right? (Sophia: Yeah.) 

Angela

That oneness, that oneness of that we are with everything. And that’s what people are tasting... it’s fun!

Sophia

Thank you so much for coming, Ang.

Angela

Oh well, thank you. This has been a pleasure and...

Sophia

Thank you for writing Soul Warrior. Thank you for the work you do.

Angela

Thank you. Thank you for being receptive to it.

Sophia

In the words of Angela DeSalvo, “Being able to fully express yourself in life is your birthright.” 

Sophia 

Angela Desalvo’s new book “Soul Warrior: How to Liberate Yourself from Survival Mode and Thrive Through Any Challenge” is available now at Amazon and Barnes and Noble. To find out more about the work Angela does, please visit: AngelaDeSalvo.net  

Sophia

Now, let’s connect with my husband to chat about a story I wrote titled,  “A Birth Story” which details the traumatic labor and delivery of our firstborn son. If you haven’t heard it already, you can listen to “A Birth Story” in the “Birth Stories” issue of Mother Crow.  

Sophia

Okay, so I’m here with my husband. We just got both of our kids in bed.

Husband

Can I please just start with in your story you didn’t mention a few details at the beginning, which was when you did finally wake me up, and we were gearing up to go, we put on Bob Seger’s Night Moves because it was the middle of the night. And yeah, we had everything ready. From what I experience, from what I saw you go through, it was understated.

Husband

I watched a woman basically get tortured. And at the beginning, I was really gung ho and like, it’s going to be fine. I have my utmost trust in the medical professionals. And then by about hour 20, or whenever, you know, the epidural happened, it was just sort of like, these these people are fallible. And you were in a basic panic.

Husband

And I thought this could be a little, little less certain. I was, I went in, you know, you call me stoic, but I was going in thinking, like, they’ll be able to take control of this and I won’t have any. I mean, I’m just a bystander. I had nothing to do with it. I’m not one of those guys who was going to coach you through your labor & delivery.

Husband

I never thought that I had that ability. It was solely in the hands of the medical professionals there. I was just there.

Sophia

You were there to witness.

Husband

I was meat in the room, as it were.

Sophia

Far more than meat in the room.

Husband

Well, maybe.

Sophia

You felt like so much a counterpart to me and that’s why you’re here, is because you witnessed something. You witnessed me. And you also have memory of things that I have no memory of.

Husband

Right. Well I’d say that...

Sophia

Of those, 30, what? 32 hours. 32 hours of labor. (Husband: Yeah) And several days at the hospital after.

Husband

And I think maybe at the end of it, you were, not blissfully unaware. You can’t really see yourself going through what you went through because of the. The drugs and all that.

Sophia

Well really, not until I rewrote the story. When I rewrote it in story form it...I’ve thought about it before. I know I’ve had the experience of the birth, but you dive so quickly into this postpartum, newborn phase and you’re just like, Mom. And that’s, that’s happened. And you have your your, what, two week check, your six week check.

Sophia

And I felt completely dismissed with the way I was talking about my scar. They said that...the doctor had looked at my perineum and said, oh, it looks like part of your scar tissue healed on the outside. And I was so uncomfortable. And it was, that was the end of it. There wasn’t any talk of what to do about that.

Sophia

I definitely came out of it feeling... broken, and I feel like part of putting myself back together was actually telling that story. And then part of beyond that is having you tell your story. You hear people say that, “Oh, you don’t remember the pain of birth?” I think I remember it. I think when I was writing the story, I felt like I remembered it for you.

Husband

Did a lot of it without drugs.

Sophia

But then you came in after you listened to Mother Crow. And you told me details that I had never heard of before, like how many stitches I had or the time that had passed, or that that we had taken a nap. That’s why it’s important that you were a witness to this, because in my memory, I have what I said in that story are these snapshots. They’re like, so concentrated.

Sophia

They’re just every emotion, and every pain. And everything is just, like, so intense. But then, outside of those snapshots, I really am. I’m oblivious to what was happening.

Husband

Okay, so the cliff notes, they go, is this you woke me up and we go to the hospital, we check in. I said, “Yeah, you’re getting the I.V. because if for whatever reason it does go to plan B or C or whatever.”

Sophia

I don’t know how quickly I could have gotten the epidural, how quickly I could have been assisted with the vacuum and possibly a C-section in an emergency if I didn’t have that stuff taken care of.

Husband

Yeah. And I think for the previous six months, you were thinking, I have a birth plan. This is my birth plan. This is how it’s gonna go. We’ve done all the preparations for it, and I had never pushed for anything other than that. Your plan, and...

Sophia

Well it was all a fantasy. It was a first, my firstbor... I mean, everyone’s first, first born is all, you’d have no idea, it’s a fantasy.

Husband

I had no idea about any of it. I had never even heard of a vacuum assisted birth. I didn’t know what that was.

Sophia

I mean, I think I did. I didn’t research it. I didn’t think it was going to happen. I mean, I was scared of just getting like a first degree tear. I was trying to prevent that. And that’s why I remember just planning about you help me with my hips and giving me me all these great positions to prevent that.

Husband

Well, I do think when we got there, it was 12 hours of shower, squatting.

Sophia

I loved the shower.

Husband

Shower, squatting. and I remember taking photos of us with a smile like a goon.

Sophia

That’s a good photo.

Husband

Because, I thought, it was going to be okay.

Sophia

And here I am in the shower, looking like I’m just going through it, and here you are just taking that... (you know, you don’t take selfies)

Husband

For posterity, I thought it would be funny, but at the end of it, you see a picture of me, and I am... You’re smiling. And I look like I had just been through... (Sophia: You were pale!) the Battle of the Bulge.  

Sophia

You were pale, and like you have this look in your jaw of like, your mouth was kind of set in this... yea, you were petrified.

Husband

I couldn’t smile. I tried, and I couldn’t, because what I’d just seen was, well, I had never seen anything like it... And I think... (Sophia: Yeah) thankfully. But I think at the beginning you put all your trust in these medical professionals. And I did. I always do. And I knew they were going to come through. That wasn’t the question. The reality set in about our 30 when it was either you’re going to have this baby taken out of you there or you going to go downstairs for the C-section, which they may or may not have been prepared for.

Sophia

They said they were preparing for it.

Husband

They said that.

Sophia

They said they had to. (Husband: Of course) because the baby wasn’t coming out. And we had passed the 24 hour mark, that they said that we really had to start considering this. And I mean, I had the same doctor for our second born, who was born just four months ago, and he had told me that he remembers how badly I didn’t want the C-section.

Sophia

And that’s why we went down this vacuum assisted route. And that’s part of also why I want to tell this story is because I, I felt like I had read every book there possibly was on pregnancy, and yet there were things that I couldn’t possibly have wrapped my head around happening. I wish I had allowed my, my brain, my heart and my soul to say, “yeah, a C-section might happen and that’s okay.”

Sophia

“I might need the epidural and that’s okay.” And I couldn’t do that in my first time around with this. I was very much rigid in this idea, this idea of what it meant to be this just badass mom. And I wanted something. I wanted the ring of fire, as much as it’s like this horrific state of pain. I wanted that.

Sophia

I wanted to overcome it, so I do feel like I got something taken away at the same time.

Husband

But you didn’t get the ring of fire.

Sophia

I mean, I got, I got a whole new ring of fire. 

Husband

You got more than that. 

Sophia

I still have a ring of fire. An ever-present Ring of Fire because of that,

Sophia

I guess, I guess I got what I wanted. I got what I wanted, and then some. 

Husband

Right. That... that extraction was not a ring. It was probably a...

Sophia

You call it an extraction. And I understand that it was an extraction, but I do remember my, my body and my space in it all. And I remember how much my, it’s like I push to the point of inverting myself. And, when I said I became the sounds of a bear, I remember the sounds that came out of me, and it was like my insides splitting in half, like I split in half.

Sophia

I understand that, but there was something that I did to do that. It wasn’t just.

Husband

Yeah, you pushed him all the way through, and then he was...

Sophia

Well, then he had to be taken out (John: Torn out) or he would have died. Yeah,  And that’s that part too where it is such a... it is a strange memory, it’s a swirl. I just remember, it’s like there were two nurses and then there were six, and there was like a calmness in the doctor.

Sophia

To like.

Sophia

A panic.

Husband

Well, when he lost the vacuum on our son, that was an “Oh shit” moment because he went back in. And once, I think the baby comes out and takes its first breath.

Sophia

He took a breath.

Husband

And goes back in.

Sophia

The room took a breath with him because it was like, hello, finally. And then.

Husband

There were three other...

Sophia

The moment he sucked back in that room completely altered.

Husband

Every, there were all hands on deck. There were, I think, 5 to 6 nurses in that room at that point. And they’d, at one point, they had all been with us throughout the prior two days, and there were two on the far wall. There were two next to you, I was right next to you. And at that point, I backed off.

Sophia

Was there anyone on me? Did anyone get on top of me and push down?

Husband

No.

Sophia

I’m still curious about that because I didn’t learn the term shoulder dystocia until my second pregnancy. And that is a maneuver you can do when a woman is experiencing shoulder dystocia during birth. And, I feel like that could have been done. But maybe, maybe I’m over critical of that moment in this reflection, because it was so... he took a breath, boom!

Sophia

I feel and, you know, at some point earlier, someone could have tried the maneuver on me, but there was a specific maneuver. You can do where someone gets on top and shoves down very hard and basically, like shoves the shoulders through. But maybe that’s also dangerous with their neck muscles. So, you know, I can’t, I can’t assume anything because I’m not the medical professional.

Sophia

And that’s what you hope, and that’s what I surrendered myself to.

Husband

Yeah, we just...

Sophia

It took me a while to. I really wanted to be in control of my birth and that was a lot of it, with my birth plan, was to just be in control because I wanted that, you know. But that’s, that’s my own journey of self-discovery and, and learning that I can’t project that onto my motherhood, that my motherhood can be a part of my healing, but it can’t be it.

Sophia

You know, I can’t put that pressure on my children to to heal me. That’s my responsibility.

Husband

And I think that’s the, that’s the thing with a lot of new moms. They want the perfect birth story. And unfortunately, it is such a dangerous thing to begin with. And in the past however many years, we’ve gotten much better at it. And they’re going to find a way to get the baby out and save the baby and the mom, whereas before maybe it was just save the baby and the mom dies.

Husband

And I didn’t know if I was walking out of that hospital with a little person, with, with you. I didn’t know. And in that moment, I thought that maybe I lost both of you, truly, when he was taken out.

Sophia

And that’s not my experience. And that’s what’s interesting about this, is that, that’s so your experience, that’s you’re standing there and witnessing this because I was just always getting him out, you know, that’s what...I was on this one track, I was like always on the path just to getting this baby out of me. And then when he was out, I mean, I was in a weird I mean, time was moving weird.

Sophia

And then he just was crying and then he latched and I was, I had no idea the doctor was between my legs sewing me up. That was such like a, “What! Excuse me?”

Husband

What you probably didn’t realize is that every single nurse there was completely silent. There was nobody talking. Once he was pulled out and you popped open, your body cavity popped open. Our son was blue, didn’t make a sound for such a long time. And everybody there thought the worse. I thought the worse. The nurses all thought the worse.

Sophia

Did I faint or something? Because I just, I guess it was just a different... I was, I was in a different place. I was in a different place. Maybe, I was just holding breath or something. And then he cried. And then that was just like, maybe in my body, just like finally got to feel oxytocin, because that is something I got.

Sophia

I got this oxytocin rush of fuck yes. And I was just madly in love. And that is where the end of this all really is perfection. It’s motherhood is perfect in that love. It’s perfect and unconditional and like part of you, and I did get that, and that’s all that matters. Despite everything that happened after...how painful everything was for months after that.

Sophia

And that’s why, I mean, it’s... how cool is that? How cool that you can get split open and not resent that thing that split you open, you know, the opposite.

Husband

Yeah.

Sophia

I’m like, shaking. I’m shaking. Well, I’m really happy you experienced it with me. I really am.It’s so many ways. Solidified your partnership to me. You just were very much my right hand man.

Husband

But I was...

Sophia

The whole time.

Husband

And I might have been steady. But it, you always... I look back and I think, you’re the dad, and you’re...you’re always kind of a phony. You’re not doing any of the hard work. You’re not, you’re not getting tortured. You’re not going through the pain. There’s nothing you can do. You’re completely impotent, as it were. But, you do think back.

Husband

“Could I have motivated you any more?” And I don’t think it... 

Sophia

You were playing music....

Husband

Oh yeah. I was playing music (sarcastic laughter)

Sophia

You never stopped the entire time. You never stopped. And every day after, you haven’t stopped and.

Husband

Yeah, I know, but...

Sophia

I mean, I, I, I, if I had any doubts, I knew without a doubt I had chosen the father of my children, you know, who I was meant to be with, who I was supposed to have a family with. Because, I mean, if there was a test in supporting a woman and child, you passed with flying colors, you know, like that was incredible.

Sophia

To the point where, my sister, I wanted my sister to go away so you could come back, now, my sister, my healing, precious sister whom I would never in any other circumstance where I’m in that dire of a state would push away, was just like, I needed you. It was, that was the... that was the birth of our family.

Husband 

Yeah. 

Sophia

And I had to have you there. And it was... And you were and yeah, it’s, it’s incredible. And talking about it now, writing that story, sharing my story with.

Sophia

The world in a lot of.

Sophia

Ways, and then doing it here with you... it feels like part of the journey. It feels like part of the journey of accepting that, um, I, I did do it, I got there, I got to motherhood, and I don’t know what I’m trying to say. I kind of lost my train of thought there.

Husband

I think what you’re trying to say, Soph, if you don’t mind, is that you went through hell, a lot of women go through hell, and it doesn’t make you less of a mother any which way.

Sophia

Yeah, thank you. That, in the end, I became mom.

Husband

After our son was born, I was going to sleep with you, and the nurses woke me up, and in a militant way, told me that it was now my turn to do all the work because you needed to rest. And I said, okay, fine. But I was super tired.

Sophia

Yeah, I bet, I bet. That whole time, I remember being in contractions looking over at you and being like, “Get this man a string cheese, please. See someone, give him some food.” And I think they did. They brought you like, I don’t know, an applesauce, some Jell-O, something to throw throwback.

Husband

But I will say, so, going back to that, and I think a lot of guys experience this, when they’re in the hospital, they don’t do anything. They’re there for moral support, sure. But they don’t really do anything. And then, once the baby’s born, they’re expected to actually show up. And at that point, I was so tire... I was so exhausted.

Sophia

Oh, yeah? Yeah, you were so exhausted?

Husband 

(laughter) yeah

Sophia 

Oh my god.

Husband

I was really tired because I’d been up, and I’d just seen some sort of civil war scene.

Husband

And so I...But I, I did.

Sophia

And I know you were tired. I know you were. And I was, and I couldn’t really sleep.

Husband

So I was, you know, I was woken up and I walked around for four straight hours. I walked around the whole place.

Sophia

That’s also because our baby had a laceration on his head that kept him up, and he was in pain and was awake more than the average newborn ought to be because of his pain in his head that lasted a good a week, and then he settled into the the big sleep phase. But that’s why we were in the hospital, and I couldn’t couldn’t move.

Sophia

I couldn’t do anything with my body for a couple days. And you had to walk him. And you did. You walked him through the halls.

Husband

I probably didn’t have to walk him. He probably just needed 30 minutes. But, I think the nurses told me that... (Sophia: This is your time, buddy) you better, you better do something because you just went through that. And I get it. I’m not saying that you went through (Sophia: It was all ouch) less than I did because you didn’t.

Sophia

(Laughter)

Husband

From the get go, when you were in all that pain. How long is this going to last? After hour six, it was no longer a joke. This isn’t...She’s not.

00;45;14;00 - 00;45;15;05

Sophia

This isn’t fun anymore.

Husband

It’s not, it wasn’t. It wasn’t fun watching you suffer like that. And, I’d try... you call me stoic, but at that moment, in hour six, after watching you in utter pain for that long, I began to think, okay, this is not going to be quick, it’s not going to be easy. And she is going to probably try to sustain this for as long as, I don’t know, I don’t want to say, ego.

Husband

But you had a birth plan.

Sophia

Yeah, I would. It would be ego.

Husband

And, I looked at you thinking, this, you can’t do this.

Sophia

Oh, I convinced myself I like needed to, I needed to be able to do it without drugs. And I couldn’t. And I’ve come to accept that, but in that moment, I needed to be able to. I needed to have that be it like a part of my identity, that I was a mom who gave birth to the Ring of Fire without help.

Sophia

You know? And I...

Husband

I understand.

Husband

But what was it, 16 hours?

Sophia

16 is when I finally said I’d, I...

Husband

16 hours of excruciating pain?

Sophia

Yeah, It was bad. It was bad. 

Husband

Yeah, it was bad. 

Sophia 

It was bad because it was wrong.

Husband

You were shaking. 

Sophia

There was something wrong. There was something wrong with the positioning. And, you’re not supposed to have cluster contractions. You’re not supposed to, you’re suppose to have breaks in between. Your body is supposed to build up, and I didn’t get breaks for, I don’t know how many hours, and that’s abnormal, and there was, I mean a lot of what happened shoulder dystocia, which they’ve mentioned before, is because, since our son was of average size, that it’s more likely to have to do with the size and shape of my pelvis.

Sophia

And I had told the doctor at month seven, I said, “It feels like he’s just lodged his head into my pelvis and hasn’t budged.” I always felt this sense of him, just like finding a spot, locking in, and not budging from it.

Husband

Okay, so going back to that, in the last trimester, it seemed, or even the first, second, third. The idea, I think is, “you’re fine, you’re fine.” And that’s what I felt, was like, “You’re going to be fine. It’s going to, It’s going to work out no matter what.”

Sophia

Oh yeah. I had, I had

Husband

This, it’s this cognitive dissonance.

Sophia

So much of what I told doctors, or my midwife, along the way was dismissed as me just being an anxious person.

Husband

Right. And so I went in like that. I was like, “She’s gonna be fine. It’s going to work out.” And then, it was like, “She’s not doing fine. This isn’t working out.”

Sophia

Well, I wasn’t progressing either. During these cluster contractions, it was like, “How are you still here, at hour whatever, and you’re only at what, four and a half centimeters? And I should have been closer. I kept should have been closer, and it was just like not happening. Did they give me Pitocin alongside the epidural? Is that why I finally contracted to full, I think I gave birth at nine and a half centimeters.

Husband

Yes. And then, shortly thereafter, they gave you fentanyl without our permission.

Sophia

I remember her leaving saying it, and me just being completely, um, bewildered

Husband

Goofy.

Sophia

by it. 

Sophia

Bewildered by her, by that happening because I had gone from not wanting any drugs at all, to all of a sudden, “what do you mean?” Like, how could you put that in me? Couldn’t you just give me the least amount of, because I was worried about the baby. That was the whole reason of not wanting the epidural. I didn’t want these drugs pumped into him during his first moments of life.

Sophia

It was always about that. And then it was like, “Hey, did you just decide that since I went for the epidural that I also will take any drug whatsoever?”

Husband

No, she, the anesthesiologist, just said, “I just gave you this.” And we were like, “Oh, okay.” You got the fentanyl. There was this three hour period where.

Sophia

It was 3 hours long? God, I didn’t know it was that long. 

Husband

I think, from, from 2 to 5 that morning. You were just happy.

Sophia 

I remember being on a little ride. 

Husband

And so, we, that’s when we took a nap, 

Sophia

Don’t remember napping.

Husband

Like 45 minutes.

Sophia

I would have said that whole time period, it was maybe 45 minutes long total. And then I decided I was done, but I guess I napped, which is good.

Husband

Yeah.

Sophia

It’s weird how memory, memory works. And you really remember everything? You remember getting there? 

Husband 

Mmhmm

Sophia

You remember people’s names?

Husband

Yup.

Sophia

You remember me telling you in the morning that we needed to go? 

Husband

Yeah. 

Sophia

You remember physically driving there in the car?

Husband

Like the wind

Sophia

Hmm, I don’t remember. It really feels like I went from, you were woken up by my contractions to I’m sitting in a bed with that plastic jug of water in my hands. 

Sophia

And that was just, here I am. 

Husband

Yeah. 

Sophia

Feeling so ignorant of what was about to happen.

Husband

It was a beautiful, it was a beautiful experience, I think. The first part was a lot of reassurance on my part. “You’re going to be fine. You’re going to be fine. You’re going to be fine.” And then, ultimately, it was more like, “This is not fine, you’re not fine.” But I couldn’t say that.I couldn’t say it.

Sophia

But no, you did.

Sophia

There was in, in my low point, where I remember just crying. 

Husband 

Yeah. 

Sophia

And like I basically gave up, I was just like, this isn’t going to happen, right? Never mind. Like, I can’t do it. And I gave up. And you absolutely acknowledged that I deserved that because we had been, like I I deserved to feel that way, basically, because of what we had been through.

Husband

Yeah. 

Sophia

That it was like, how could you not feel so demoralized by this experience if you just, and this was after pushing for 2 hours, and I really thought he was coming out. I thought for sure he was coming out. There was movement, and that’s, and that’s what the shoulder dystocia was is I... he was coming out, and he just kept coming back in.

Sophia

And so he’d come out and go in, come out and go. And he just had never taken his breath. But that’s what I was feeling. His shoulders just never let him surpass that moment. And I do think if I had a doctor who wasn’t pregnant and completely disinterested in helping me, that things would have been a little bit different as well.

Sophia

I mean, my son and I survived, and I’m very grateful for that.

Husband

Amen

Sophia 

(stumbles over the start of a sentence) 

Sophia and Husband

(Burst into laughter)

Sophia

Thank you. I really, really appreciate you adding, adding all of this to this story, just makes it whole. Makes it our story. And I like that. Transforms from a birth story into our birth story.

Husband

It was my pleasure. Thank you.

Sophia

I love you. 

Husband

I love you, too.

Sophia

Now let’s connect with another mother to hear some more birth stories.

(Baby coos in background)

Sophia

I’m here with Jess Bushnell. My five month old will be, um, babbling and probably whining in the background because he’s teething, so, Jess and I have discussed this is very fitting. So welcome, Jess, to Mother Crow. tell me first, you’re a mother. 

Jess

I’m a mother. My older son is nine years old. My younger son is seven years old. 

Jess

I love this space that you’re providing to have women tell their birth stories, because I remember, I had two home births, and my homebirth midwife was just like, I just feel like I want to cry just even say her name.

Jess

She’s, this was the most magical warrior, grounded woman. Her name is Sheila VanDerveer with Comadres Midwifery, and she’s in Sebastopol. She, you know, like after I gave birth, I just remember, like, walking around almost in a daze. Just like what you said. Like, “That happened?” 

Sophia

Yeah. 

What the F? Because it took me, like, a month to walk downtown, which is five blocks from where I live, because I was so, my, my body had a massive amount of healing to do, and so...

Sophia

Yeah. From one woman to another, I could be like, Oh, my God, I totally understand staying at home for that long period of time to heal your lower half and also, to not just heal your lower half, but to like exit into society again after such a transformation from g... So why don’t we start with firstborn? Because that is, in a lot of ways, a huge transformation of going from pregnant to a mother. And that’s an identity. 

Jess

Completely. 

Sophia

So let’s start there. Let’s start with your first born?

Jess

When I was pregnant, when I look back on pictures when I was pregnant with my firstborn, his name is Jamus. And when I was pregnant, Jamus, I was 11 days late with him. And so I got pretty big. And when you look back at my belly, my belly had this, um, almost like a triangular. 

Sophia

Mmm

Jess

Uh, What do you call it? Uhmm.

Jess

Almost like a tor... like it was super big out in front and it was like a, almost like a torpedo. It, I didn’t realize it at the time, but uhm, my theory is that that was the beginning of, after my first born, I got this condition called diastasis recti. 

Sophia

uh-huh. 

Jess

Have you ever heard of diastasis recti?

Sophia

Yeah, I have. I have it a bit. 

Jess

Yeah. 

Sophia

I’m trying to figure out how to just, like, do the beginning steps of breathing to fix it.

Jess

Yes, that’s the, breathing is huge and so is alignment. 

Sophia

Yeah. 

Jess

Uh, Looking at our shoes, Uhm, There...I went through a, I went down a  massive rabbit hole with that particular postpartum injury.

Sophia

Uh-huh

Jess

I didn’t know I had it for a year. Postpartum. I had never heard of it before in my life. And, I was with my one year old sitting on the couch because my feet kept hurting, couldn’t figure it out.

Jess

And, I was on the phone with a Rolfer, and she was asking me about my feet and about my back. And then she just happened to say really casually, Uhm, “Oh, do you have diastasis recti after your first born?” And, I was like, “What is that?” She’s like, “Well, put your fingers just above your belly button and do a sit up.” And if there’s a gap in there, then you, then you have it. And so, I was on the couch with my son, and I did a sit up and my fingers sunk in, and I was like, 

Sophia

Ohhhh

Jess

Oh my God. And a whole, like, eight year journey ensued.

00;54;26;14 - 00;54;42;02

Sophia

I’m at a point where I’m going to a chiropractor. My core is not holding my spine right now, and I know I have diastasis recti because I had it the first time and didn’t fix it through the second time. So...

Jess

Yeah.

Sophia

Later, Let me absolutely ask you everything you went on that journey to help me start mine, with fixing mine.

Jess

Uh, absolutely, I think the one thing I want to just like close off on that is that I was so determined to, in my head, the word was “fix” back then, and fix myself naturally. I never considered surgery because it was just never an option in my mind. And then it was like five years into that journey, somebody, a friend said, “Well, why, if you’re not healing, why don’t you consider it?”

Jess

And then that, my mind had a little mini mind explosion from that. And actually, this year, I’m celebrating one year. Uhm. Why am I blinking on it? Post-surgery, post-op? 

Sophia 

Oh. Okay. 

Jess

So I went and actually got surgery to fix that. After eight and a half years.

Sophia

I’ve never heard that you could do that. I’ve heard that it’s like, start by breathing, in over long periods of time, you might be able to bring them back together.

Jess

Yes, 100%. Totally start with that. I would never tell anybody to start with surgery. 

Jess

I would say definitely start with...

Sophia

Oh, absolutely. 

Jess

the healing process..

(Baby cries)

Sophia

I just, I didn’t know it was an option. Oh, honey. 

(Baby cries louder)

Jess

So...

Sophia

Sweetheart. Shh, Shh, Shh

Jess

Oh, Mister

Sophia

It’s been, I bet, some time since you’ve had this size. 

Jess

Completely. My brother has a two year old and I, like, forget what it was like. 

Sophia

Oh yeah.

Jess

Like, I see his two year old and I’m like, “Oh my God, my kids did that?” And it’s like, What? Already?

Sophia

I came home from the hospital, and I held my three year old’s hand and I went, “No way has it been this big this whole time.” It just, it’s such a, like perspective just gets blown.

Jess

Completely 

Sophia

Which we can get back to is, like, when you give birth, what happens to you, you know? So...

Jess

Yeah. Okay, 

Sophia

What happened to you, Jess? 

Jess

So, let’s get, Okay, let’s get back to that. 

Jess

One thing I think is funny about it, I was procrastinating writing my baby shower, thank you cards, and my sister was doing the dishes, and it was like midnight. And I finally finished them, and I put the pen down, and I said, “Okay, I’m done with my thank you cards. Now, the baby can come.” Because we’re all waiting for the baby to come, and then my water broke at like midnight or something,  

Jess

And the baby, 

Sophia

Oh my gosh. 

Jess

Jamus, started to come. So, water breaks, this whole, you know, my midwife came. I, Let’s see.

(Baby loudly babbles)

Sophia 

Well, I know we’re a bit, We have a baby distracting us right now

Jess

Yeah.

(Baby loudly coos)

Sophia

Hey, Bud...

Sophia

... I was ten days late, of this, like, get this baby out of me. But also, like you said, there’s still things to do. And you’re like, Not until I’m done with this task.

Sophia

And then your water breaks. And this water breaking moment is, is truly kind of like that like signifier of 

Jess

Yeah

Sophia

Of shift. 

Sophia 

It’s kind of like there’s no return. You’re going, you’re going into labor now, and let’s go. So, what happened when your water broke? Where were you?

00;57;30;20 - 00;57;54;05

Jess

Yeah. Yeah.I was...

Sophia

You were at home. 

Jess

I want to say I was sleeping, and I think my water broke, and I want to say it woke me up. And then I look at my husband, and I’m like, “oh my God. I think my water just broke.” And I ran to the bathroom, and I actually can’t remember exactly what it was, but I, how I figured it out, I think I called my doula, and she asked me some questions.

Jess

And so, then I think it was just pretty soon after that my contractions just started.

Sophia

Mmhmm

Jess

And I just kept like, feeling like it wasn’t that big of a, like they weren’t that big. It was like they were crampy. 

Sophia

Yeah. 

Jess

It was like, “Oh, they’re, they’re crampy.” This is just, this is gonna, I was like planning on being in labor for like two days because, like, we’re having a homebirth who, who knows how this is going to go.

Sophia

Yeah 

Jess

Well, our midwife had this saying, where she was like, “Well, plan for 24 hours, and if it’s anything less than that, just consider yourself lucky.”

Sophia

Oh my God, I wish I had been told that because I felt like it was like, “You’re coming up on 24 hours, you got to hurry! Get this baby out!”

Jess

Totally.

Sophia

I had such a different experience. So, this really is incredible getting some insight into that homebirth environment, you know, and what births can be.

Jess

Oh, my God.

Sophia

As opposed to traumatizing. So, I mean, we can start there. Was, by the end of this story, were you traumatized, other than physically, were you traumatized by this?

Jess

I was surprised at how, it took a while to use the word trauma. I was traumatized after, like physically traumatized afterwards. And I didn’t really realize it. But the experience of being at home, my dog and my sister’s dog watching my baby be born on our bed. 

Sophia

Woh. 

Jess

And even, just like, the prenatal visits, I would drive to Sebastopol and sit with my midwife for an hour, and we’d have tea, and we’d talk about all the things in my life, my emotional stuff, my eating...

Sophia

Oh, nice. 

Jess

It just like felt like the most nurturing experience going into giving birth.

Sophia

To be so connected to someone supporting you through it is really cool.

Jess

I told her afterwards, I was like, I felt like you were my Glinda. And, you know, like the only like, my mom was there, the second midwife was there, our doula was there, my sister was there, our dogs were there. But, the only two people that I needed was my husband and our midwife. Oh, my God. Oh, it makes me want to cry.

Jess

She just would like, her voice would just, like, come in and then come out, and she just let me have my process. And sometimes she would say, okay, like my maybe my moaning would be kind of high. And she’d say, Hey,Jess, just bring it down. Just like drop into it a little bit, bring down your, uhm...

Sophia

Like almost get more guttural. 

Jess

Octave, instead of “hehhh,”  it cause, hehhhh....

Sophia

I’ve heard that.

Jess

It constricts.

Sophia

It constricts. Mm hmm. 

Jess

Yes. There’s always these birth pictures where there’s like the baby on the chest, which is a beautiful and amazing, that whole experience. I’m just going to show this to you, was me and my husband, and me in the tub, and him just like being my, like, grounding rod. And that’s exactly, like, that’s how I was able to do it.

Jess

There is one point where I could feel his head coming through, and it was like, Well, there’s no way I can do this. Where a lot of other people that I heard said that was the easiest part, and for me that was the scariest. Like I felt I was, like my whole body was going to be ripped open.

Sophia

Well, the ring of fire.

Jess

The ring of fire, totally.

Sophia

It’s supposed to be like transportive but like the most painful thing you could ever experience in your life.

Jess

Well, and all the books that I read about The Ring of Fire, I remember reading about that. But then going through it was like, oh, like my, it felt like my bones were breaking.

Sophia

Oh my god, because your body just opens.

Jess

Yeah, open. 

Sophia 

Oh, my God. 

Jess

And then, Jamus was, it was like, okay, here it is. Like he’s coming through. And then I was actively pushing for 2 hours, and he wasn’t coming out, and he wasn’t coming out. And we tried everything. We got me out of the tub, and then we tried on the birthing stool, and we tried everything.

Jess

And then Sheila, who it was super... We interviewed different midwives, and it was so important to me to have somebody who had a super strong foothold in her intuition and a super strong foothold in her intelligence and her like knowledge and wisdom in the physical realm. When it got to that point, I just felt, I didn’t have to think about the safety part, like I knew that she had it.

Jess

And, at one point, his, it was like 2 hours in, his heart rate started going down because she was monitoring him through the whole experience. What she decided to do was, she said, “Okay, give me one more push. If this doesn’t happen, I’m going to give you an episiotomy because we have to get him out.” 

Sophia

Oh

Jess

And so, then she gave me an episiotomy.

Sophia

And she would do that at a homebirth? 

Jess

She did it at a home birth. 

Sophia 

See, like, I didn’t know that would even be considered at a homebirth. So that’s so, that’s enlightening right there.

Jess

Well, and she said, out of 500 births, I was her, I think her second. 

Sophia

Okay.

Jess

She’d really tried, tried so hard not to do it.

Sophia

The rare

Jess

Really rare. Yeah, she gave him his, his first haircut because she, his head was right there. And she snipped, and my sister said he came out like he was on a slip and slide, and there was a lot of blood, and I actually, I don’t know for sure, but I think I technically, like hemorrhaged.

Jess

It’s like I’m hesitant to say because I don’t, I don’t really know. Like, I just know there was a lot of, there was a lot of blood. I was really ripped up. I couldn’t walk downtown for a month, I think I walked around the block to my sister in law’s house, like two weeks after, and I still had to be super slow and I couldn’t, like, carry him. 

Jess

After, so Sheila would do, she did six postpartum visits, which was amazing because I remember, because you have to go, you have to be checked up three days after. 

Sophia

That’s unheard of! Six? 

Jess

Six post partum, Well, for six weeks, was it six weeks or six of them? But I saw her. She came three days after the birth and then a week after and then once a week after.

Jess

And I was so, my vagina was so torn. I looked at Ray, and I was like, “How would I get in the car to go to the hospital right now?” I, I couldn’t even fathom it. I felt so nourished and, like so grateful that she came to me. 

Sophia

Absolutely

Jess

Ray remembered the homebirth in a very visceral way, and I like didn’t

Jess

And he like was taking all the bloody stuff out into the garbage can and our like old neighbor, old lady neighbor like was walking by, and she’s like, “Oh, you had the baby. How did it go?” And he was like... She told me later that his face was just like...

(Sounds of a face contorting) 

(Laughter)

Jess

It was really, it was a really big deal. It was really intense. 

(Big Laughter)

Sophia

Oh, my gosh. That’s awesome. Oh, I love that.

Jess

So, but he, you know, he remembered it. My, we asked my midwife, my midwife was like, “Look, Jess, like, I and Ray will always remember it from our pre-frontal cortex, the front part of our brain. You, like, when you give birth without, without drugs, you go into your primitive, your primal brain. And so, for you, your birth is always going to live there.”

Jess

It’s not that it’s not there. It’s just that you don’t live your day to day life from that spot.

Sophia

Yeah. Why writing the story helped me is because I got to bring it from that primitive part to the front, you know, and remember certain things.

Jess

I can imagine, like how helpless it must have felt for my husband and like my mom, like my husband said, like, “Is that okay?” He asked my midwife, like when his head was trying to come through. It looked like his brain was all mushed up. Like my husband was like, “Is something wrong?”

Jess

It’s so interesting to relive it. The feelings that are bubbling up, you know? He, Jamus just came out, like we had trouble breastfeeding. We didn’t sleep for two days. Like, my vagina just felt a hamburger. Like, I couldn’t really, I could hardly walk. I was just in bed. Everybody was coming to me, you know? We’re just trying to figure it out one step at a time. My emotions were so all over the place.

Jess

And then, uhm, a week later, my, I had, my midwife, she had taken my placenta, and she had made them into placenta pills. And so then I started taking the highest dose a week later and my emotions just completely leveled out. 

Sophia

Woh,

Jess

And I was just amazed. I remember asking her, like, “I heard there’s a postpartum glow.” I don’t think I got mine.

(Laughter)

Jess

And she just listened to all my stuff, and yeah. And, and speaking about it, like I remember, like I had messaged you, this is like my dream from like nine years ago. I remember walking around because I was a stay at home mom, and I was walking around this new baby thirsty, like, craving to tell my birth story to somebody.

Jess

I don’t even, I don’t think I ever did tell my birth story because it wasn’t, you know, maybe we were at the park, and maybe our kids are running around and people are eating mulch and...

(Laughter)

Jess

You know, I think, Sophia, the world needs people like me and you, who do overshare because I honestly think it, we create a safe space for other people to be able to just ponder. And then, whether they say it or not, it’s like, oh, yeah, that happened to me, too. Okay. 

Sophia

Yes. 

Jess

Oh, my God. Now something is free in me...

Sophia

Mmhhmm. 

Jess

To, like, have that experience be okay.

Sophia 

Yeah!

Jess

Sophia, Thank you so much for giving witness and holding such a beautiful, honoring space for me to share all that and, uhm, having me. It’s been such a pleasure to open up these portals with you again. And dust them off and see that they’re, they’re just as deep and watery as ever.

Sophia

Ooh, I like that. 

Sophia

After the conversations I’ve had here, I’m feeling so ready and motivated to open more deep and watery portals of connection with mothers and artists, storytellers and thinkers on future episodes of Mother Crow Connection.   

Sophia

Thank you to Jess Bushnell, my husband, and Angela DeSalvo for taking the time to connect with me on Mother Crow Connection. In the next episode, I will be covering topics featured in “The Fun House” issue of Mother Crow, including insomnia and the importance of sleep for mental health. 

Thank you for listening and stay tuned for more Mother Crow. 

(Sounds of crows cawing)